telecine questions when finishing to film HELP!

[cartala]

Hi,

All of these timecode issues seem quite daunting, and I want to know the simplest option without (ideally) buying new plugins or editing software.

I shot on 16mm, and had it transferred so that its now 30ftp NTSC video stored onto a miniDV. Using a miniDV camera, I've firewired it onto my PC using non-drop frame capture mode, where I intend to edit on Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5. The video was color corrected as it was transferred, but there's no burned-in timecodes or keycodes or any of that, nor do I have a disk. I suspect this won't work for finishing to film, am I right?

The transfer company's timecode machine is being repaired, so I can probably get it retransferred with timecode once its fixed. However, researching the problems with "virtual" frames due to 3:2 pulldown and the like, and dealing with these timecode issues in the EDL--isn't there a better option?

What if I have it simply transferred to miniDV treating the original film as if it were shot at 30fps (though it was shot at 24fps)? If we run the telecine at 30fps, wouldn't there be a 1:1 ratio of frames of film:video? Therefore there'd be no "virtual" frames, thus eliminating the timecode problems and issues when I have the negative conformed (matchback)?

(By the way, I want to use this same video for DVDs well after I've submitted the film prints to festivals and the like...will this 30fps transfer idea adversely affect the video quality?)

Thanks,
Derek

 

[bigdaddyross]

Re: telecine questions when finishing to film HELP!

I suspect this won't work for finishing to film, am I right?

Pretty much. Without timecode, or what's really frame numbers from the side of each frame of film, burned into the screen, there is no reference for what you do in the computer to correspond to the film at the lab.

AVID (Xpress Pro and above) and Final Cut Pro (with the film tools) have EDL (Edit Deicsion List) software supplements that make this whole process easier. These tools take into account the 24 frames per second of FILM and remove the 3:2 pulldown extra frames from the EDL.

I myself and an Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 user and proud of it. On my first feature fim though, I was forced to go to AVID XPRESS PRO becasue I couldn't to the conform back to film without it. I wish that Adobe even had a 3rd party plug in for this (they used to with versions 5 thru 6.5).

The only possible saving grace is if the timecode of your DV tapes somehow had an embedded timecode that can be matched to the first frame of film (also known as Hole punch timecode). Telecine guys often use a hole punch on the first frame of film after the leader and then set the timecode to ZERO (0:00:00:00) on that frame. That way more advanced Negative cutters can still conform even without proper EDL frame numbers.

 

[cartala]

Thanks for the reply!

I do have the punchhole at the beginning of each lab roll, but it sounds like for best results I better upgrade to Avid or buy the standalone Slingshot filmmatcher which works with Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 and others.

Perhaps you haven't heard of this option. Not a plugin but a standalone, but perhaps the only option outside of Avid or FCP. Check their site out:
http://www.trakkertech.com/Products.html
I think the "Film Cut" software is all that's necessary, but its about $300. Which makes me think...should I just go w/ Avid?

Are you sure only Avid Xpress Pro allows matchback? I saw this new release:
http://www.avid.com/company/releases/2001/010118_filmscribexdv_prod.html
though I cannot find where the matchback software actually is in their Xpress DV version. Or am I mixed up and FilmScribe is not the matchback software?

 

[bigdaddyross]

EDL MANAGER is what you need and that only comes free with Xpress Pro (or else I'd have bought Xpress DV...)

I searched high & low for Premiere Pro 1.5 Film Conforming, even with 3rd Party & came up with nothing. Kudos for the score.

The hole punch has to conform to a 0:00:00:00 time code on your tapes, or at least a 1:00:00:00 so that you can match it back to the film frames. If there is no correspondence with the timecode to film frames, they can't match what you did on the computer to physical film frames.

 

[MarkG]

Yeah, Xpress DV was designed as a cut-down version that would only really work for DV editing... you need Xpress Pro to support film editing properly.

That said, I did edit a 16mm short on Premiere 4.2 and get the negative cut... but that had burnt-in timecode matched up to the original film, and was PAL so there were no annoying pulldown issues to deal with.

 

[cartala]

So what was that news release talking about regarding avid xpress dv and filmscribe? What is filmscribe? Did avid previously have it in the lower version and then get rid of it?

http://www.avid.com/company/releases/2001/010118_filmscribexdv_prod.html

 

[bigdaddyross]

From the link you provided...

(January 18, 2001) — At the 2001 Sundance Film Festival, Avid Technology, Inc. (NASDAQ: AVID) today announced that the FilmScribe™ option will be available for Avid Xpress® DV version 2.0 software. For filmmakers on a budget, Avid Xpress DV version 2.0 software with FilmScribe option provides a total cost-effective, high-performance film editing solution. The FilmScribe option allows Avid Xpress DV system users to affordably edit films acquired in a wide range of film formats, then generate frame-accurate, detailed cutlists to ensure correct editing and assembly of the film negative and prints for distribution. The FilmScribe option is planned to be available for Avid Xpress DV version 2.0 software for laptop and workstation systems, which is expected to ship later this quarter. Expected pricing for the FilmScribe option for Avid Xpress DV version 2.0 is $1,299 US MSRP.

This was from January 2001. They are Avid XpressDV 5.1.5 right now... and it retails for $499.99

Yes, they used to sell a seperate "filmmakers pack" to go with Avid Xpress DV 2.0, and at one point threw it in for free. Things change. Today they offer Avid XPress Pro as the only lower range Avid product with the EDL manager & Filmscribe.

 

[cartala]

Thanks for all of the replies and happy holidays!

 

[BigBeaner]

You can export as an EDL in PP 1.5