is that XDCAM a true alternative?
- Thread starter mundods
- Start date
David Mullen ASC
Active member
Well, I haven't shot it yet myself, but in theory it would be better partly because XDCAM's are pro cameras with larger CCD's (1/2" or 2/3" -- I think the current model is 1/2" CCD's) and more advanced gamma controls, better lenses, etc. And I think the HD format on XDCAM's are a little less compressed than HDV.
But there are a lot of HDV cameras out there, so it's hard to be definitive about which is best. The Pro-HD JVC line-up may have a pretty good camera. A lot of the HDV cameras have fixed zoom lenses, small CCD's, and don't do 24P, which is a problem for me -- assuming I could afford better (if not, they're great!)
But there are a lot of HDV cameras out there, so it's hard to be definitive about which is best. The Pro-HD JVC line-up may have a pretty good camera. A lot of the HDV cameras have fixed zoom lenses, small CCD's, and don't do 24P, which is a problem for me -- assuming I could afford better (if not, they're great!)
E
element80
Guest
Disadvantages: 4:2:0 color sampling, which means no chroma key from what I'm told. Also, they don't have all the multi-matrix features that a lot of other Sony broadcast-quality cameras have. I've also been told, but cannot confirm, that they're not actually true HD, with resolutions a little less that true HD, but more than SD (hence the name XDCam). The discs can have their downsides, too. Since they're made to be reused, odds are you'll record over the original footage after capturing it, which could be a problem if the hard drive you have it stored on fails, and you don't have the original to go back to. The PD decks have also had problems talking to Avid, so if you're not cutting on Final Cut, you might be in trouble.
Advantages: The disc recording allows you to view footage non-linearly, so if you're watching a clip, and see something you want to shoot, you can hit record and start recording immediately, instead of having to find the end of the tape. Also good because you don't have to rewind to see footage at the beginning of th shoot. Each time you stop recording, the camera creates a new clip, and you can browse through the clips instantly. Capture time is also cut down, because you can browse the disc like you would files on a computer, and copy them onto your computer faster than real time. The camera also automatically creates low-res proxy files, which can actually be edited using non-linear software in the camera (not sure that this really has any practical application, but it is an interesting feature).The proxy's can also be used if you want to edit low-res, and then re-import hi-res once you've locked picture, to save hard drive space.
All this to say, the image really does look great, and the lenses cannon makes for them are gorgeous. Despite the cine-alta sticker on the camera, however, it really is more of a run-and-gun news type camera (it's even got a button to switch the preset WB into 5600, just in case you need to follow the mayor out the front door of city hall). If you can afford it, go with something a little nicer, but if not, then go for the XD. I'd suggest waiting a little bit, however, because Sony is working on 2/3" chip versions (they currently have 1/2" chips). If you have any other questions, let me know, and I'll see if I can help you out.
Advantages: The disc recording allows you to view footage non-linearly, so if you're watching a clip, and see something you want to shoot, you can hit record and start recording immediately, instead of having to find the end of the tape. Also good because you don't have to rewind to see footage at the beginning of th shoot. Each time you stop recording, the camera creates a new clip, and you can browse through the clips instantly. Capture time is also cut down, because you can browse the disc like you would files on a computer, and copy them onto your computer faster than real time. The camera also automatically creates low-res proxy files, which can actually be edited using non-linear software in the camera (not sure that this really has any practical application, but it is an interesting feature).The proxy's can also be used if you want to edit low-res, and then re-import hi-res once you've locked picture, to save hard drive space.
All this to say, the image really does look great, and the lenses cannon makes for them are gorgeous. Despite the cine-alta sticker on the camera, however, it really is more of a run-and-gun news type camera (it's even got a button to switch the preset WB into 5600, just in case you need to follow the mayor out the front door of city hall). If you can afford it, go with something a little nicer, but if not, then go for the XD. I'd suggest waiting a little bit, however, because Sony is working on 2/3" chip versions (they currently have 1/2" chips). If you have any other questions, let me know, and I'll see if I can help you out.
mundods
New member
Thank you friends...
Thank you friends...
I´ll be on the line of the discussion about XD topics. Thank you again for your opinions. It is very important to know some technical considerations before take a decision... I think is better to wait for the 2/3" CCD, but now is the good time to learn concepts. I like the hard disk version on camcorder´s. Maybe we have to wait so many time for this disponibility, but it´s true, this is only the begining.
We know, it exist a lot of HDV options, and the respect advantages / disadvantages; but now for especific project I have to consider to work in better video format. I don´t want to rent Cine-Alta; I'm just want to invest 30,000 +/- on camera body and to rent the periferics, that´s why I´m interesting on XD.
Yes, I mean this is not true HD but has a great configurations / cost relationships. Or what do you mean?
I'm worry about the Final Cut 'condition'; why can´t we finish on Avid?
When reused disks is natural to thinking about the 'loose of the originals', but always it exist the backup´s in hard drives stored with the same quality, or not? Maybe to go back to the originals is impossible but in some cases is unnecessary.
When you export to the hard drive you creat a low-res files to start an off-line work, so this is a true practical application.
In another wise, I want to know all about Progresive stuff, Prime lenses for XDCam´s, 'gamma controls' and different kinds of color samplings.
With that generation of XD, can´t we make Chroma Key control?
Is better to shoot 24P or 25P (in PAL system) to telerecording process?
In some HDV´s it exist CINELIKE funtion: what's means?
The multi-matrix features is only a quality of another kind of broadcast cameras?
Sorry but if sometime I´ll decide to go to XD, it will be only with your help.
p.s. I don´t know if can I´ll wait for the 2/3 chip, I´m just want to try XD cameras as soon as possible...
Thank´s again and have a nice works, Mundods.
Thank you friends...
I´ll be on the line of the discussion about XD topics. Thank you again for your opinions. It is very important to know some technical considerations before take a decision... I think is better to wait for the 2/3" CCD, but now is the good time to learn concepts. I like the hard disk version on camcorder´s. Maybe we have to wait so many time for this disponibility, but it´s true, this is only the begining.
We know, it exist a lot of HDV options, and the respect advantages / disadvantages; but now for especific project I have to consider to work in better video format. I don´t want to rent Cine-Alta; I'm just want to invest 30,000 +/- on camera body and to rent the periferics, that´s why I´m interesting on XD.
Yes, I mean this is not true HD but has a great configurations / cost relationships. Or what do you mean?
I'm worry about the Final Cut 'condition'; why can´t we finish on Avid?
When reused disks is natural to thinking about the 'loose of the originals', but always it exist the backup´s in hard drives stored with the same quality, or not? Maybe to go back to the originals is impossible but in some cases is unnecessary.
When you export to the hard drive you creat a low-res files to start an off-line work, so this is a true practical application.
In another wise, I want to know all about Progresive stuff, Prime lenses for XDCam´s, 'gamma controls' and different kinds of color samplings.
With that generation of XD, can´t we make Chroma Key control?
Is better to shoot 24P or 25P (in PAL system) to telerecording process?
In some HDV´s it exist CINELIKE funtion: what's means?
The multi-matrix features is only a quality of another kind of broadcast cameras?
Sorry but if sometime I´ll decide to go to XD, it will be only with your help.
p.s. I don´t know if can I´ll wait for the 2/3 chip, I´m just want to try XD cameras as soon as possible...
Thank´s again and have a nice works, Mundods.
E
element80
Guest
Re: Thank you friends...
Re: Thank you friends...
We got a bunch of XDCams in where I work back in December, but have done very little shooting on them because All our editing is done on Avid. For some reason, Sony's Professional Disc decks have issues with Avid. I don't know the specifics, but apparently right now the only way to import the footage is to buy some other device that costs a few thousand dollars to correct the problem, or transfer all the footage to tape, which completely defeats the purpose of us trying to convert to tapeless. Also, I don't know if this is the case with all versions of Avid, but it is with Avid DS.
Yeah, I know, I was just saying that some people like the security of having the original tapes to go back to.
The feature I was saying might be impractical was the basic editing software built into the camera. You can actually start to cut together your footage in the camera itself.
The cameras can shoot 60i, 30p, and 23.97p in high def. As far as prime lenses, you should be able to use any kind of HD lens as long as it has the right mount, and is for 1/2' cameras (you can also get an adapter to use 2/3" lenses). I haven't really used any of the gamma controls, so I can't help you much there.
Supposedly because of the 4:2:0 color sampling, you can't get a good key to do chroma keying. Of course, we haven't actually been able to test this, because we can't get the footage into Avid.
Could mean one of two things. Either it's just letting you shoot progressive (the cannon XL1 was like that. if you set it to shoot cine-like, it meant you were shooting 30p), or it's letting you shoot 24p
The multi-matrix is a feature of some of Sony's DigiBeta cameras that allows you to fine-tune the colors. 3CCD cameras have a prism that splits the light into red, green, and blue light, and each chip records the information for that color. However, the prism doesn't split it perfectly, so some light from the other two colors can leak onto the chips it's not supposed to. The multi-matrix allows you to make color adjustments to control some of the light leak.
Re: Thank you friends...
mundods said:
We got a bunch of XDCams in where I work back in December, but have done very little shooting on them because All our editing is done on Avid. For some reason, Sony's Professional Disc decks have issues with Avid. I don't know the specifics, but apparently right now the only way to import the footage is to buy some other device that costs a few thousand dollars to correct the problem, or transfer all the footage to tape, which completely defeats the purpose of us trying to convert to tapeless. Also, I don't know if this is the case with all versions of Avid, but it is with Avid DS.
mundods said:
Yeah, I know, I was just saying that some people like the security of having the original tapes to go back to.
mundods said:
The feature I was saying might be impractical was the basic editing software built into the camera. You can actually start to cut together your footage in the camera itself.
mundods said:
The cameras can shoot 60i, 30p, and 23.97p in high def. As far as prime lenses, you should be able to use any kind of HD lens as long as it has the right mount, and is for 1/2' cameras (you can also get an adapter to use 2/3" lenses). I haven't really used any of the gamma controls, so I can't help you much there.
mundods said:
Supposedly because of the 4:2:0 color sampling, you can't get a good key to do chroma keying. Of course, we haven't actually been able to test this, because we can't get the footage into Avid.
mundods said:
Could mean one of two things. Either it's just letting you shoot progressive (the cannon XL1 was like that. if you set it to shoot cine-like, it meant you were shooting 30p), or it's letting you shoot 24p
mundods said:
The multi-matrix is a feature of some of Sony's DigiBeta cameras that allows you to fine-tune the colors. 3CCD cameras have a prism that splits the light into red, green, and blue light, and each chip records the information for that color. However, the prism doesn't split it perfectly, so some light from the other two colors can leak onto the chips it's not supposed to. The multi-matrix allows you to make color adjustments to control some of the light leak.
mundods
New member
Thank's element80: I hope to have a time to correspond to your comments. Truly I don't know the version of compatible Avid with this recording type, but I will investigate. For my in europe is important the version PAL (50i, 25p, etc.)
It is a pain that you have not done your material with Chroma Key process as a consequence of the such component; Anyway it is important to mention that being 4:2:0 color sampling is not able to make a good CK. Can you deepen the topic?
In connection with CINELIKE, can I understand that this alone device converts the reception frequency to Progressive? or does some other effect exist to emulate the film aspect?
Thank you another time for your comments... a hug.
It is a pain that you have not done your material with Chroma Key process as a consequence of the such component; Anyway it is important to mention that being 4:2:0 color sampling is not able to make a good CK. Can you deepen the topic?
In connection with CINELIKE, can I understand that this alone device converts the reception frequency to Progressive? or does some other effect exist to emulate the film aspect?
Thank you another time for your comments... a hug.
E
element80
Guest
Sadly, I've already told you all I know about the potential chroma key issues. As for the film-like capabilities, it has adjustable shutter speeds, adjustable frame rates, shoots 24p, and has various gamma controls to simulate a more film-like look. Also, I'm pretty sure it can shoot both 25p and 50i PAL formats.
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