Avid - Any questions? What do you think? Chat about Avid

[DerekEastham]

Ok,
I'm surprised that no-one has started an Avid topic yet...
so here goes.

I've some experience with an Avid Media Composer 1000.
Nice system, but very buggy and rather old.
I've also been introduced to the latest and greatest Avid
DS Nitris system... rather amazing actually... very surprised
by the tremendous power behind it.

Also, might as well include Pro-Tools systems in here... as
DigiDesign is an Avid company.
I've used Pro-Tools... and looked into a brand new ICON
system.

So, anyone have any questions? Any at all...
I know quite a lot about the Avid line... and I'd love to help
answer anything that anyone might want to know about.

 

[Digigenic]

Hey,

I've been very interested in getting the new AVID Express Suite for PC, what do you think of it?
I've never used Avid, at the moment I'm stuck with FCP on a Mac at school and I'm trying to deal with Vegas on my current PC, but I've been spoiled with FCP's Real-time Extreme.
If not Avid, I may have to opt for Adobe's Video Suite, but I just have a feeling that the Avid Suite is much more resourceful.

Then, to make matters more confusing, there are rumors that FCP may become available for PC!?
WHAT TO DO!?

 

[MarkG]

If FCP was released on the PC, I think I'd forget about Avid .

Avid has a lot of features, and the ability to edit a project on a low-end Avid and then easily do a final online edit on an expensive system, but the interface is just so damn 1980s. It's possible that if you use it all the time then the modal, keyboard-driven interface is fast and easy to use, but I just find it horribly clunky compared to Premiere and FCP.

And, frankly, it's also incredibly expensive for what you get. Avid pricing seems to be based on their brand name, not a realistic appraisal of how much better it is than the competition (which is rapidly catching up). I'm also not convinced that they have a good plan of how to deal with that competition, and I've resisted buying Xpress Pro precisely because I'm not sure how long they'll continue to support it... I wouldn't be surprised if they retreat to the high end and abandon the low-end and mid-range systems in the next couple of years.

And pricing is even worse here in the UK where they charge about 80% more for the same software than they do in America. It would literally be cheaper for me to fly to New York, stay for a weekend, buy a copy of Xpress Pro, fly back to England and pay all the import taxes, than to buy a copy here. I don't know about you, but to me that's just insane.

 

[Digigenic]

Damn, the Avid interface is that vintage?
So many professionals are using Avid, must be the comfort factor?
If FCP becomes available for PC, it would have a major impact, I'd definintely have to get it for my PC.
But, I think I'll be going for the Adobe Suite, it's become so tightly integrated, and I can't help but feel like I'm in good hands with Adobe.
Thanks for your comments.

 

[MarkG]

Well, I'm not entirely sure when Avid started, but it certainly feels that old to me .

Basically Avid seems to be designed for people who grew up cutting up bits of film and sticking them together with tape, while Premiere and FCP are designed for people who grew up using a GUI on a computer. That was great for Avid in the last decade or two, but now that very few people edit by taping bits of film together I'm not sure it's a good workflow to base your editing system on.

Incidentally, I don't know if they still have it, but some time back Avid had a downloadable 'Free DV' cut-down demo version on their web site. You can't do a lot of useful stuff with it, but if it's still available it will give you an idea of what the interface is like and whether you'd want to use it. Probably more useful than just my opinions .

 

[Digigenic]

No, you've been plenty helpful...
I at least know what to expect when I get the chance to work on one now.

 

[DerekEastham]

Wow... this forum has suddenly taken off.
OK...
I've got a few things to clarify here.

I've worked on many editing platforms... from Final Cut Pro, to Avid, to Media 100 and yes, even that thing named premiere.

They all have their disadvantages... motsly relating to price and features. Here's my personal opinions on the matter:

Premiere -
a decent product. Great for the higher end home users, begining
filmmakers, and wedding videographers who shoot & edit.
why?
Because it's a lack-luster memory hog. Premiere, for all of it's nice
features, is still nothing more than a souped up consumer editing
platform with the multi track editing capabilities that people love on
an avid. But the way it abuses your RAM is rediculous.

Media 100 -
recently, an executive producer at a top production company in
Seattle seemed astonished that the program was still in use.
why?
because they ran their company into the ground. Regardless of that,
the media 100 system is a decent editing platform. The newer ones
have got some great RT effects... however, it's still like editing on a
machine that's attempting to be an Avid, while falling as short as
Premiere... way to expensive to pay for something equal to
premiere.

Final Cut Pro
Ok, I'm a HUGE fan of FCP. The user interface and organization is
beyond wonderful. The new RT effects in the 4.5 release are really
smooth, if a bit slow. Considering all of their new revisions, and the
overall improvements to the effects and program, FCP is by far one
of the best editing platforms I've ever used. Until only a week ago,
it was my platform of choice...
why?
Because 1 week ago the local Avid Re-seller in Seattle took me and
to a post production house they'd recently sold an Avid Nitris to.
WOW!!! the power behind the still 32-bit Avid program was totally
unbelievable! The HD & RT abilities of that machine are wonderful,
and watching the in-house editor demo the machine for us made me
realize why Avid is still #1.

Ok, now it's time to explain a bit more about Avid & FCP.

What's so great about the new line of Avid?
Lots of things. For one, they've redesigned the work flow and organization system. It's still based on the same ideas, which FCP and Avid have shared similarities with... but now it's streamlined.
The new Express systems are blazing fast with power to spare. and their interface is more similar to the FCP interface, which is designed to work like the Avid Composer.

As for what to buy... Digigenic, buy an AVID Express suite... and if you can afford it, I definetly recommend the MOJO to go along with it. I was allowed to play around with one of those, and it's just amazing how easy it is to integrate with.

As for my biggest concern on any editing platform... as this is related to the visual look of the film... the color correction tools are very important to me. The HSL system on FCP has been, until recently, the best one's I've ever used...
however,
after being introduced to the Express suite... ten seconds later I'd color corrected an image of Jerry Seinfeld into perfection... however, I could have saved myself 9 seconds and just used the brand new amazingly designed and programed auto-color-correction tool!
The Avid really has improved their structure.

As for the higher end production model... the Avid Nitris makes FCP look like a child's play thing. There's not much to say really, other than WOW...
I know a lot of you might complain about the price... but even a short time on express, with a good editor, and you'll very quickly begin to understand why the Express is still leagues beyond FCP.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not tossing my personal FCP system out the door... but the next system I purchase will be an Avid.

Digi... as for FCP on the PC... they've been talking about that since the release of v1.0... so while it'll likely happen... especially considering who owns Apple Macintosh... but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Honestly guys... try and contact a local avid reseller... then see if you can get in to demo an express... they'll usually have an FCP system right near by... give them both a try and see what you like...

BUT...
and this is important...
if you seriously want to be an editor, and this isn't just a hoby for you...
DO NOT
D O N O T
buy a Premiere system. Adobe should stick to their FX program.

Oh,
and on Free AVID from the avid website.
It is a good general representation of the "environment" of the Avid...
but it isn't even a comparison to any of the new full-version products.

Hope this conversation will continue... sorry this was such a long response!

 

[gwyddion]

Avid express dv

Avid express dv

I should be getting my hands on the express dv system in a couple of days...I'm looking forward to it. Does anyone have a line on some decent user forums (Not counting this one of course ) I've got to be jumping in with both feet and cound use some really nice in depth tutorials...Send me a PM...thanks

 

[DerekEastham]

gwyddion,
while I don't know any on-line forums, I've come across some brilliant editing books that I found very useful with my time on an Avid.

A really great book for Avid, believe it or not, is the standard (and very thick) Avid Book. It's usually cross platform for many of Avid's products from composer to Express... but if you do decide to get it, be sure you check to see that it's going to talk about Express DV.

Also,
though it can also be substituted as a book about life, and acts as my own personal bible, "In The Blink Of An Eye" by Mr. Walter Murch. This book is a brilliant book from the editors point of view. If you trust anything I say, get this book... you wont be disappointed... I Promise!

Seriously though, as for Avid Interface, etc... go for the latest & greateds version of the "Avid" book. They're usually titled "Avid" followed by the system it covers... like "Avid Composer" or "Avid Express."

Good luck with Avid Express DV... btw, are you lucky enough to be getting a MOJO along with it?

 

[gwyddion]

No I'm not getting the Mojo. Actually I've got the access to avid through school. Im going to the Specs Howard School of Broadcast arts and they offer Avid training during 4th quarter. So I'm working on a Dell with Avid Ex pro. Its got a DVC pro deck firewired to it. I got there early and grabbed the setup/user guide and started playing already

 

[jblackwell]

Compatability Issues

Compatability Issues

I'm hoping to buy Avid Xpress Pro within a week or so, so I downloaded the demo (Avid Free DV) to check it out, but it won't recognize my camera. It's not one of the "Avid-inspected" cams. Is there anything I can do about this? I only have a Sony TRV38 (I'm a high school student, what can I say?). Is there a way to make it compatible?

Also, my computer is not on the list of Avid-recommended systems, but I could load the demo. Am I going to have problems with the real program? I have a Dell Dimension 4600, P4 2.8 GHz, 1 GB of ram, 128 MB DDR ATI Radeon 9800 and an 80 GB hard drive. What do you think? I desperately want Avid. Thanks!!


Also, if you have any suggestions for software in case I can't work with Avid, feel free. I like Vegas 5, but don't know much about it. I'm open to suggestions!

 

[MarkG]

The main problem with that system is that for some reason Avid only support realtime 3D effects on nvidia cards (or did, as of a few months ago). The secondary problem is that you really want a second hard drive purely for video, to get best performance. Otherwise it should be fine.

No idea why it won't talk to your camera though.

 

[DerekEastham]

Well... it's always worth a try. The Radeon card should be sufficient... and the program should load just fine. You might want to check out your system's set-up v the avid recommended set-up though... see what you're missing.

On the camera... not sure why it didn't recognize... hopefully Express won't have that problem... could be just that the free version is very minimal.

If you aren't successful with Avid... Vegas is basically the next in-line to buy, if you can afford it... otherwise, premiere is there... not my choice of program, but it's pretty-much a backfall to many people (even though it is a ram hog).

Hope everything turns out OK for you with the Xpress Pro... though I'm not sure why it wouldn't run on a Dell... they're supposed to love Dell.

MarkG is right though... you'll want to have at least 2 separate harddrives... which goes for most any video program. On one of them is the OS and the software... the other you just digitize to... the processing is easier and the encoding isn't going to be buggy as often this way.

I'm not sure about your Radeon card... but if Avid will only support the Nvidia... Mark may also be right that you'd have to get a new card to support real-time FX.

GOod luck... let us know if everything works or not.

 

[jblackwell]

Avid XPress Pro vs Vegas 5.0

Avid XPress Pro vs Vegas 5.0

"If you aren't successful with Avid... Vegas is basically the next in-line to buy"
Have you tried Vegas? What's it like? I hear the interface is tricky and a bit uncomfortable compared to something clean and simple like FCP or Avid. Are the audio features leaps and bounds ahead of those of Avid or Adobe because of Vegas's history as an audio program?

Anyone have any opinion on which program is better, assuming both are affordable and compatible with my computer/camera?

Thanks!

 

[MarkG]

Well, a lot of realtime effects work on Radeon cards, it's only the realtime 3D effects that don't: I don't think any of those effects are included in the free version, only the full commercial versions. There was a thread a few months back on the Avid support forums about it, with some (to me) seemingly spurious explanation of why they only support nvidia cards.

 

[jblackwell]

Just realized what should have been the obvious reason this is failing...My computer doesn't have a FireWire card, and Avid doesn't want you connecting things through USB. So here's the new question. If I get an external harddrive with FireWire ports, do I need anything new for my main system to get everything working, or does the ext. hard drive solve it all? This might be a stupid question, but I don't know much about computers. I used my school's excellent film lab for all my previous editing, so I never had to set things up myself. 15 gorgeous macs with FCP, gotta love it. Anyway, I'm pretty confused! Any help is appreciated so that I can get Avid up and running and get back to filmmaking! Thanks a lot

 

[DerekEastham]

you should definetly get a separate firewire card...
otherwise you'll likely run into many problems... including im-proper speeds for importing.
Direct connections to the computer are best.

 

[MarkG]

A firewire drive should be OK for basic editing, but if you want to do complex effects on multiple tracks, I'd get an internal drive. I've also heard of problems in the past with people trying to capture video from a DV camera onto a Firewire hard drive using two connectors on the same Firewire card.

 

[jblackwell]

Upgrades galore

Upgrades galore

Alright, I added 512 MB ram (total of 1.5 GB now), a 3-port firewire card, and a 120 GB external hard drive (total of 200 GB of space now, internal+external), does that sound like a decent base for a PC video editing workstation?

 

[DerekEastham]

to me it looks as though you're all set...
now all you need is a full version of the editing software

Good luck... happy editing