Sony's HDVCAM prototype

[Digigenic]

The following link will take you to an article about Sony's HDVCAM Prototype...


http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/sony-hdv-prototype-camcorder-03_17_04.htm

 

[MarkG]

Neat, I'd missed that article. Now we just have to see who's going to release HDV upgrades for their editing packages...

 

[Digigenic]

Announcements for support of the new Mpeg2 HD format have already been made by many of the major NLE software developers. Alot of these things will materialize at NAB, then we'll know exactly what we can expect to play with in the upcoming months.

 

[aPerfectCircle]

cineform (www.cineform.com) has a plug in from adobe premiere 6.5 and premiere pro called aspect hd, which allows the transfer streams from an hdv camcorder to be imported into the nle software. Not only will it capture from the camcorder, but it will also capture straight from the jvc hdmh30000 HD VCR, the digital VHS model. I own the vcr, and the quality is great, but you have to have a beast of a machine to handle the streams. The specs are listed on the website. There is also a plugin for final cut pro by a company called hueris that allows hdv streams to be captured into the software. the FCP plug in runs like 500 or somewhere around there, the adobe plugin runs 1300...

where does one acquire funds?

 

[MarkG]

More info... looks like it will be on the streets in a couple of months:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/conten...on1080i-HDR-FX1-First-3-CCD-HDV-Camcorder.htm

Some good news, some bad news, some dubious news!

 

[Digigenic]

Way to stay on top of things Mark,
and OMG..."Proprietary Real Time HD Codec Engine" :shock:
"native 16:9" :shock:
"trade in your PD170 and pay only $200 for the upgrade!?" PRICELESS...
...no XLR ports!?

Anyhow, Canon and Panasonic have been dealt a serious blow with this one...that is unless they're not too far behind with announcements of their own :?:

Let's hope so...

 

[MarkG]

There's some footage linked from here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=0824b8198e0366b866c533da44ed55d4&threadid=31706

Unfortunately it's been scaled down to 1280x720 and there's no fast movement in the shot to stress the MPEG compression (and, of course, it's been recompressed in WM9 format), but it looks promising so far.

...no XLR ports!?

From the sound of things this is the VX2000 equivalent, and there'll be a PD150 equivalent with XLR sockets and other 'pro' features. Also, the PAL version apparently does shoot 25fps, so that should make film transfers easy (just slow everything by 4% and do some 'smart' deinterlacing).

 

[MarkG]

Stay away from it. It's a toy in relation to the Panasonic camera and the Canon.

Out of interest, what do you think is wrong with it? The only complaints I've heard so far from the people I've come across who've had a chance to play with one of the Sony prototypes is that it's heavy and the viewfinder is in a really stupid place for a camera of its size.

I wish I could remember the entire title but I saw a mockumentary shot by John Bailey ASC with his DVX and blown up to 35mm.

Presumably this one, though Wim Wenders isn't listed in the credits? John Bailey is the cinematographer:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0374639/

Someone mentioned it to me yesterday as a movie to look out for...

 

[MarkG]

Yeah, the CCDs are 990 pixels across rather than 1440 or 1920: I presume they'll be offsetting one by half a pixel to increase effective resolution, like the XL1, XL2 and some other cameras, but can't find any more information to confirm that.

 

[MarkG]

There's some raw footage here, though it's mostly wide shots of parks and streets, so not the best way to judge the camera:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33865

Some of it looks good, but the picture seems a bit soft and grainy to me, as though the gain is up even on the day-light shots.

 

[filmtek]

HDV...not HD

HDV...not HD

1st post on this forum so please no-one hack me for my opinion

Unfortunately at such a slow bit rate of only about 19.2Mbits/sec (less than actual DVCAM). HDV is gonna turn into the standard for High Definition and true high end HD post facilities are gonna have to deal with those who spend nothing on the aquisition of the image but alot on the actual post side of it to try and make it "look" like true 220Mbits/sec High definition television. HDV is to HD as dvcam was to digibeta and betacamSP. I do agree it does look better than DVCAM though.

Now everyone's gonna "think" their shooting HD....beware

 

[Digigenic]

Welcome to the forums filmtek,

I look back at my old posts and laugh... :lol:
I can't believe I was even mildly interested in Sony's HDV solution. It's still a nice camera, for what it is...
Though, I knew even then that we were likely to see a true HD solution from Panasonic so I wasn't going to treat HDV as though it were only the solution for budgetable HD acquisition.

Of course, by now--with the introduction of the HVX200 I've pretty much forgotten about HDV

 

[MarkG]

it is heavy. The construction is not rugid enough for semi professional use.

Heavy, I'd agree with: I can just about hold the Z1 with one hand like a normal 'handycam', but it's best held with one hand on the side/underneath and the other on the carrying handle at the top. Or you can balance the rear of the camera on your shoulder and use the LCD instead of the viewfinder... a more traditional design with shoulder support and viewfinder near the front would have been a better choice, but I'm sure Sony would charge another $10k for that . It's also almost certainly too heavy for my Steadicam JR, which is a pain.

Seems fairly robust, but it certainly isn't as big and solid as the Betacams I've seen.

Unfortunately at such a slow bit rate of only about 19.2Mbits/sec (less than actual DVCAM).

JVC's 720p cameras are 19Mbps, Sony's 1080i cameras are 25Mbps, just like DV.

HDV is to HD as dvcam was to digibeta and betacamSP.

Yeah, exactly. I don't think anyone is claiming that Sony would release a $6k handycam that would produce as good a picture as their $100k HD cams . But it is still a very good image for the price, provided you take the limitations of the format into account (e.g. 4:2:0 rather than 4:2:2, and potential compression issues if you have too much changing from frame to frame).

The big downside is that you can't use it for a sane master format. You really don't want to shoot MPEG-2, recompress to MPEG-2 for your HDV master, and then recompress again from that master for DVDs or broadcast HD. If you're doing any kind of 'professional' work you'll probably have to edit offline in HDV, then do an online edit to HDCAM or similar for the master.

Now everyone's gonna "think" their shooting HD

And they'll be right... they're certainly shooting HD, even though it's not quite as good as a 'professional' HD camera.

 

[Heath McKnight]

I know this is a bit old, but I want to say the Sony Z1 is an excellent camera and can capture some great HDV footage! I wouldn't use it if I didn't like it, and it ranks right up there with the DVX's for me. I wish it shot 24p, but conforming 50i/CF25 video to 24p in Final Cut and Cinema Tools is easy and fast!

heath

 

[Dill]

Z1J HDV HDCam

Z1J HDV HDCam

I have used the Z1J many times (as well as many other cameras).
As a mini dv cam type camera I find it easy enough to use.
The one downfall being the lens. It's dark, not enough light through.

There is perhaps another downfall, although I am not 100% sure.
Apparentely it does not take advantage of the full 1080 resolution,
due to compression or something.
I don't know the ins n outs of this, but apparentely so, when digitising with firewire.

If you know, please reply.

p.s.

I found out about this site when I was trying to find out if there is a reasonable reasonably priced HDCam camera on the market, in the areas of the like of the Z1J.
(not something that can record at HDV or DVCam, but both at the same time, like the Sony HDWF-900).

Yes I know we are talking about a copmletely different price range,
but ponder this:

Why is it that the likes of the Z1J can record at HDV resolution, and at DVCam tape speed, but can't do (or won't do) both at the same time.

I'm not an engineer (just a cameraman) but I recon it's just a simple electronics thing. Can anyone crack a Z1J menu? If so, I'm sure there's an answer.

I'm waiting for an interesting reply.

Yours,

 

[Heath McKnight]

Re: Z1J HDV HDCam

Re: Z1J HDV HDCam

Not true at all. The Z1 takes full advantage of its sensor (960x1080) and with its non-square pixels and pixel-shift, it goes to 1440x1080 without a problem. Panasonic does something similar with their HVX200, which its sensor size is 960x540 and it goes to either 960x720 or 1280x1080.

heath

I have used the Z1J many times (as well as many other cameras).
As a mini dv cam type camera I find it easy enough to use.
The one downfall being the lens. It's dark, not enough light through.

There is perhaps another downfall, although I am not 100% sure.
Apparentely it does not take advantage of the full 1080 resolution,
due to compression or something.
I don't know the ins n outs of this, but apparentely so, when digitising with firewire.

If you know, please reply.

p.s.

I found out about this site when I was trying to find out if there is a reasonable reasonably priced HDCam camera on the market, in the areas of the like of the Z1J.
(not something that can record at HDV or DVCam, but both at the same time, like the Sony HDWF-900).

Yes I know we are talking about a copmletely different price range,
but ponder this:

Why is it that the likes of the Z1J can record at HDV resolution, and at DVCam tape speed, but can't do (or won't do) both at the same time.

I'm not an engineer (just a cameraman) but I recon it's just a simple electronics thing. Can anyone crack a Z1J menu? If so, I'm sure there's an answer.

I'm waiting for an interesting reply.

Yours,

 

[Heath McKnight]

PS-The new Sony European HVR-V1e isn't a Z1e replacement, but joins the line as a 1080p25 camera. I'm speculating a USA version will have 60i, 30p, possibly 50i/25p (I'm not sure, though), and I think 24p. Again, this is an educated guess, but I think Sony's going to put that stuff in the US V1.

heath

 

[MarkG]

The Z1 takes full advantage of its sensor (960x1080) and with its non-square pixels and pixel-shift, it goes to 1440x1080 without a problem.

Yeah, but it is often noticeably soft when you look at still HD frames. I think a lot depends on whether there's a significant amount of green in the shot, if there isn't then you won't get anywhere near the full resolution.

The one downfall being the lens. It's dark, not enough light through.

That's rarely been a problem for me, particularly as you can use around 9db of gain with no obvious problems.