RED or EX1? Which one is right for you?

[Jon Firestone]

These are the two cameras out right now that I am particularily excited about. They are in completely different classes and price ranges, but both are, in my opinion top in their class. Let's look at the contenders.

RED ONE...the impressive 4K digital cinema camera. It takes 35mm lenses, it has tons of resolution as well as up to 120 frames per second in 2K. It produces truly cinematic images, and is becoming hugely popular even on major Hollywood productions. But it's big, and expensive (relative to the EX1) and has a hefty workflow.

Sony EX1...also impressive in it's own right. It bears Sony's coveted CineAlta tag, and rightfully should. It produces true 1080P images, it records to Sony's XDCAM EX format and can shoot up to 60 frames per second in 720P. It has features like HDSDI that are usually only seen on much more expensive systems. But it has a 1/2" image sensor, a fixed lens and only records at 1080P.

Which one suits your needs the best?

 

[Neil]

Is the EX1 better then the HVX200? It films in 1080 at 60p. You need a lens adapter for both the EX1 and the HVX, so I'd say the HVX was better... Am I wrong in assuming this?

-Neil

 

[Jon Firestone]

The EX1 is a significantly better camera than the HVX. I'll give the HVX credit though, it's a good camera, but there is a big difference in image quality. Not all 1080p is truly 1080p. The image sensors on the HVX are 1/3" CCD sensors with a resolution of 960x540. The camera does pixel shifting and upressing to get it to 1080p. The EX1 has 1/2" CMOS image sensors with full 1920x1080 resolution. The EX1 has 4 times the resolution of the HVX200. Also Panasonic's 1080p codec is not 1920x1080 but is 1280x1080. HDV is also not the full 1920x1080, it is 1440x1080. The EX1 can actually shoot true 1920x1080 unlike the other cameras in it's class.

 

[Neil]

Wow, thanks for the schooling! How can one differentiate between "1080p" and TRUE 1080p? What should you look for?

Is the EX1 the best professional camcorder out today, in your opinion?

My heart is broken after hearing what you said about the HVX... Simply broken. I guess it's not that bad, just depends on what you're looking for. What's the price difference between the EX1 and HVX?

-Neil

Thanks for getting back to me.

 

[Jon Firestone]

The HVX is considerably older than the EX1, and was top dog in it's category for a long time. It still does what it always did, there's just a newer better camera in that range now. I've seen great stuff shot on the HVX. I've also seen less than impressive stuff shot with them. It's just a tool and they can all tell stories and produce nice images. But if you compare them in a very analytical way, the EX1 is significantly better than the HVX in most ways. Sony branded it with the CineAlta logo, and they would not give it that distinction if it would tarnish that branding. That being said, manufacturers aren't always forthcoming about the specs of their imaging chips, and Panasonic was particularily tight lipped about the HVX's resolution. Ultimately what it comes down to is what resolving power of the camera. The best way to test the practical resolution of a camera is to shoot resolution charts, preferably under the same conditions with the cameras that you want to compare. Usually shortly after the release of a new camera several independent tests will be done and the results will be posted on various forums and web pages. It pays to do your research. I also consider the general public opinion of a camera. While I can argue specs of a camera with someone interested in hiring me on a job, or renting my gear, it's always easier if you have the camera that everyone is talking about and wanting to use. The HVX had a great reputation, and was a good choice compared to other cameras, if for nothing else than the perception that it was the camera to have.

 

[Jon Firestone]

The HVX runs for roughly $4500 and the EX1 runs for about $6500. So the EX1 is a fair amount more.

As far as finding out the actual chip resolutions, you can check the specs pages in the manuals, look up detailed reviews online or check well informed forums.

I think that in it's pricerange the EX1 is the best camera. There are a lot of professional cameras that are better than the EX1, but not in the same pricerange.

 

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[BenB]

Well, considering the original question was about RED vs. EX-1, that's apples to onions. If you can afford a RED, you go RED.

As for the HVX200, it does a great job, and is a different animal from the EX-1. There are things it's better at than the EX-1. There are things the EX-1 is stronger in than the HVX200.

As for pixel shifting, what most folks miss is that CCDs and CMOS chips are analog devices, not digital devices. It's the digital interpretation of that analog signal that determines a chip's "native" resolution. ALL digital HD video cameras on the market to day do some form of pixel shifting, period. Even the EX-1. It is how they get the resolutions and clarity they get, as what comes "native" off of the sensor chips is pretty much garbage.

I rented the EX-1 and because we shoot lots of movement, we had major rolling shutter problems. So we're sticking with the HVX with a Letus adapter and top end photography lenses. But the EX-1 is a great camera. It's not perfect, but no camera is. If there were a perfect camera, we'd all own it.

Every camera has it's pros and cons, you have to weigh them out and pick which one you want to use.

I've seen HVX and EX footage side by side, and experienced DPs couldn't tell the difference. But then again, these were shot by folks very knowledgeable about how to set up each camera and light properly. If you don't know lighting, or how to manually control your camera in detail, no camera is going to give you magical pictures.

 

[Jon Firestone]

A more apples to apples comparison will definitely be RED's Scarlet camera and an EX1, where the price will be much more comparable, and we will be comparing two fixed lens cameras. Scarlet will be built using much of the technology from the RED One camera, so many aspects of this debate are still relevant. Although I have two friends who could afford to buy REDs and even had reservations, and ultimately decided to go with EX1s instead, because the EX1s suited their needs better. In regards to whether or not a DP could tell the difference between an EX1 and an HVX, certainly there are many situations where it would be difficult to see the differences. Since the details of this test are not mentioned here it's hard to determine the technical validity of the test. If the scene was lit well the noise levels of the cameras may not have been a factor. If the monitor was not 1080P and being fed a 1080p signal from each camera, then the resolution difference may not have been distinguishable. Even so, the live feed off these cameras is pre-compression, so if it was a live feed being compared, then the compression would not be being compared either. Aesthetically the scene may be visually the same to the DPs, and while the aesthetic is the important part of visually telling the story, it isn't very technical. The technical side though does have its place, and generally speaking, the higher resolution and lower noise the camera, the more we can do with the image, and the more flexible it is. I agree that each camera has its strengths, but in my opinion the EX1 is significantly better than the HVX200. I look forward to seeing what Panasonic releases as the successor to the HVX.

 

[Lerg]

Hi. I'm a high school student so I'm sorta a newb when it comes to Red, but I'm really interested. In comparing the Red One to something like Sony's EX1, I know that Red shoots in 4k, so it has like four times the resolution of 1080p or something insane like that. But in my experience, resolution isn't everything. So, maybe this is a dumb question, but how does the Red One compare to other cameras, say the EX1, in terms of color, and depth of field? What about the film look? Does the Red One look like film? 'Cause if it's so good, why do people keep buying those $40,000 Panasonic Varicams or the Sony F23 which only shoot in 1080p? Especially when Red One is cheaper...even with accessories.

I read this article on the Red camera that said its "linear image resolution" was 93 line pairs per millimeter, while typical 1080-line 2/3" cameras have 100 1p/mm, so the Red One has a smaller imager. What does all of that mean?

oh yeah, and why are there only "mini XLR" inputs in the Red One?

 

[Jon Firestone]

The RED ONE camera has a much larger image sensor than the 2/3" image sensors of cameras like the Varicam and F900 Cine-Alta. It is roughly the size of a super 35 film plane and it has a PL mount allowing it to use standard 35mm film lenses. One of the things that makes an image cinematic, is having a shallow depth of field, which is much easier to achieve with the large image sensor on the RED camera. People still buy Varicams because they still have relevance. The RED ONE is primarily a Cinema camera. There are some advantages to the existing workflow and form factor of the ENG style Varicam cameras. For the type of work I do, the RED camera is great, but not everyone makes movies, and not everyone who makes movies wants a Cinema style form factor, or wants to deal with newer technology and learning a new workflow.