more watts=more money?

Lazlo

New member
This may seem like a dumb question, but I'm trying to figure out the more technical aspects of lights these days, and I was interested in why lights cost more money as the wattage goes up. I think that more watts makes a brighter light, but I don't see the advantage there... If its too bright, then the light would be ruthlessly hard on the actor/actress's face (not to mention the loss of subtlty). Why would you want more wattage, instead of sticking with 150 or something? Thanks.
 
Well, as a rule the higher the wattage the more money the unit costs to buy/ rent.

But, the type of light has a lot to do with cost as well. For instance, a 12k HMI PAR is quite a bit more money than a 12k fresnel.

Lighting is relative. a 4k PAR is not that bright as fill when one is using a 12k PAR as key (not that these would be particularly good units for the above purposes without some form of diffusion, but its just for the sake of conversation). The same is true if you are keying with a 1k and filling with a 150, it is all relative.

I personally like big lights diffused, and walked back as opposed to small units close. Big lights are also used for big setups, such as night exteriors.

I also will use a large unit to "protect myself" stop wise. If I know I may need to do some high-speed work, or need to carry an actor at a deeper stop I will use a larger unit.

For instance, I needed to light this room:
http://www.ironwolf-legends.com/thelodge/icmam/icmam67.JPG

I knew that I could use a smaller unit like a 5k through a frame of light diffusion and get a similar effect. But instead I used a 12k through a frame of something (I don’t remember what diffusion it was) and then bounced off of griff. This let me do two things. Have the double soft I wanted (or I could pull it if I wanted to without any lighting switch) and also I had to do some 48fps work.

Thus I used this setup (or something close, the picture was taken while tweaking was in progress):
http://www.ironwolf-legends.com/thelodge/icmam/icmam61.JPG



Kevin Zanit
 
Most movie lights are not shone directly on people unless motivated (faking hard sunlight, a stage spotlight, track lighting, etc.) or you want an old-fasioned studio style.

Soft light techniques (bouncing, shining through diffusion, etc.) are notoriously power inefficient. If you want a T/2.8 at 500 ASA, for example, a 650 watt Tweenie shined directly may be too bright, but shined through a 4'x4' frame of heavy diffusion may be too dim. A 150 watt light is definitely too dim if you put a Chimera on it or shine it through a frame of diffusion unless it is very close to the subject.

Distance of the lights also affects choice of light. A 6,000 watt HMI is incredibly bright in a small room, but may barely be bright enough to light a block-long alleyway for "moonlight" if up high on a rooftop or crane.

So combine distance AND softlight techniques and you understand why some of these lights have to be HUGE. For example, you want to light a large loft space with a single softlight as if it were a big window, it maye be something like a 12,000 watt HMI shining through a 12'x12' frame of diffusion outside of a window just to get a decent shooting stop in the room.

The more you start working with soft light and the larger the spaces and the farther the lights have to be, the more you will be wanting more powerful lamps.

Most students using movie lights for the first time make the mistake of shining them directly on the actors in small rooms and going "wow, that's too much light!" But try lighting a whole living room by bouncing a single 150 watt off of the ceiling and you'll probably find that it's barely enough light (assuming you are trying to use 0 db on your video camera for example.)
 
So then, pretty much, whether its key, kicker, back, fill whatever, you are almost always diffusing it with something, or bouncing it off something? Why would you do that, as opposed to just getting a lower wattage light? I mean, I understand that it all depends on context, so if you're trying to light a dark a block or something, yeah, you need a 6000 watt HMI, but if you're just lighting two people having a conversation in a relatively small room or studio, then three-hundred watts would be too bright... would you use diffusion, or just get a less bright light (for less money)?

As for the bouncing the light off the ceiling, wouldn't that give a flat look to the scene? How do you light an indoor conversation between two people (lets just say no windows to save the trouble), without giving it a flat look, or making the scene way too bright? Thanks.

P.S. I hope I was clear enough... I have so many questions sometimes they don't always come out in the clearest way possible.
 
Good lighting isn't as pedantic or academic or simplistic as using hard 3-point lighting -- that's only meant as a starting point for discussing what the light is doing in the scene. Modern cinematography is more about simulating or recreating natural light but in a way that creates the right mood, or makes the actors look a certain way (generally more attractive but not always) or at least, shows us their faces so we can read the performance.

Softer lighting is generally harder to control, which is why it takes some skill to use it AND create mood and contrast. Usually this involves careful use of flagging.

You could, for example, bounce a light off of the ceiling but within a black cloth skirt you've taped around to the ceiling to keep the bounced light off of the walls.

Two people sitting on a couch can be lit many different ways -- for example, an overhead Chinese Lantern flagged off of the walls. Or crosslit from the sides with soft back-edge lights as if from table lamps.

Look, if you're intent on just shining spotlights at actors in small rooms, yes, you'll probably find 150 watt units are bright enough in many cases. I can't believe you haven't noticed though that that's not how most movies are lit though! Low-key soft light with some contrast through flagging or controlled fall-off is more or less the modern style. Hard spots for actors at night, indoors, are generally only motivated in rooms with track lighting. And often those aren't proving key, back and fill.

As for why not just use a lower wattage light than diffusing it, the answer should be obvious if you think about it: a soft light LOOKS DIFFERENT than a hard light. If you want a softer light on a face, then simply going to a lower wattage hard light is not going to do the trick, will it? If you don't understand how a face looks different in a soft key or a hard key, you need to watch movies more carefully and look to see how defined the shadow pattern is on a face.

As for BRIGHTNESS, that's a question of exposure, isn't it? After all, the sun is an incredibly bright light source, so why isn't everything you shoot out in the sunlight look horribly overexposed? Because you expose for the sunlight so that the brightness looks normal. You can even underexpose sunlight to make it look like moonlight. The only problem with using too bright a light indoors is that while you can expose for the light so that the subject is normal in brightness, you may now have too much depth of field from stopping down the lens, or you may be overpowering all the natural light in the scene so it looks darker in comparison.
 
Just a bit more about why use a 12k HMI when you're going to scrim & bounce the heck out of it...

On the film I've been working on for the past 2 months, we do this all the time... partly for much of what David mentioned... but also because it's much better to have a light that you can take the scrims away from & then the bounce and get that power if you need it... rather than being stuck with ONLY that 150...

Plus... how much fun is it to rig a huge light like a 12k HMI!
 
Dont forget FALLOFF. A small light placed close to the action (whether direct, bounced or diffused) falls off in intensity very rapidly as the actor moves away from it, or increases in intensity very rapidly as the actor moves closer to it. This often results in under or over exposure.
A larger unit placed further away from the action falls off (or increases) intensity much more gradually. This is usually, but not always a more desireable situation.

Brad Hoover,
Educational Director,
Blue Ridge Motion Pictures
 
Good point Brad; one I forgot to mention.

In that setup that is in the pictures, my stop was basically the same from the front of the room to the back. The 12k double bounce had very little falloff.


Kevin Zanit
 

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