Film newbie... need advice on how to get started

S

scud133

New member
I've always had a desire to get involved with film. I've been making stupid jackass-style movies with friends on digital8 and miniDV for over 3 years now, and frankly I'm ready for more. Seeing Kill Bill 2 didn't help either... the extreme close-ups of David Carradine now have me desperate to get started with film. I'm not entirely a newbie as far as "film" goes; I have experience with slr still cameras. But in terms of film movies, I'm brand new. So my main question is, where would you recommend I get started (books, websites, movies, anything)??

Also, since I'm used to miniDV I've grown really fond of computer editing and I haven't been able to find a definitive answer for these three "challenges" that come to mind:
- How do you get film onto a PC for editing?
- How do you record/synch sound?
- How do you synch playback of a finished film and sound?

I've done some basic research, and of course I've come across companies that can transfer film to video but I'm not in a position right now to shell out loads of cash. So basically here's my main dillema:
How can I get a start in film without spending outrageous amounts of cash and be able to do post-production myself?
~Thanks
 
So basically here's my main dillema:
How can I get a start in film without spending outrageous amounts of cash and be able to do post-production myself?
Click to expand...

Dont start in film, keep with digital.
 
desktopmunchies said:
Dont start in film, keep with digital.
Click to expand...

Reasons why?? I'm just not satisified with the video-look and mediocre quality... and rather than spring for an xl-1 or something simliar, there are tons of 8mm and 16mm cams on ebay for less than $200. I really want the "film" look for serious stuff, but I will definately keep miniDV for stupid jackass-type things. So what do I need, and where should I research, to get started in film?
 
How can I get a start in film without spending outrageous amounts of cash
Click to expand...

You don't. Any low-budget movie you shoot on film will be very expensive compared to video unless you're willing to significantly cut corners by shooting short ends and the like.

there are tons of 8mm and 16mm cams on ebay for less than $200
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Meanwhile, a one hour DV tape costs $5 or less in bulk, while an hour of super-8 or 16mm film with processing and telecine will set you back more like $1000, with more money to spend for a negative cutter and final prints. Plus those cameras are unlikely to be capable of recording sync sound with any decent quality.

Seriously, 'film' and 'cheap' are rarely used in the same sentence (unless it's something like 'film is not cheap'). Which is not to say that you shouldn't shoot film, but stick to video until you're convinced that you know what you're doing and are ready to spend $100-1000 a minute on your next movie. Spending $10,000 on a 10 minute short which doesn't live up to expectations would suck.
 
scud133 said:
I really want the "film" look for serious stuff
Click to expand...

For the ammount of money it is to buy a decent digital camera and some fairly good lighting equipment to make the image look more profesional it would still be less than the money you would spend on buying film.
 
desktopmunchies said:
For the ammount of money it is to buy a decent digital camera and some fairly good lighting equipment to make the image look more profesional it would still be less than the money you would spend on buying film.
Click to expand...

Since I'm a total noob, what should I look for (and where) for lights???
 
If your a total noob, you shouldn't be concerned with lights yet. Those come later. First you need a story. Then you need to shoot it. Then you need to shoot more stories. You have to master the basics of film/digital before you move on to expensive equipment that you don't necessarily know how to use (though you may think you do).
 
Hands on use of any equipment is good!!

Hands on use of any equipment is good!!

If you can afford to get lighting equipment, i would get it and use it. If you want to learn there is nothing like practice and exprementation. Also, Remmeber some total noobs are serious and smart as hell and above all have talent for "telling stories" with images.

Kim
 
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Re:

How do you get film onto a PC for editing?
- How do you record/synch sound?
- How do you synch playback of a finished film and sound? .
Click to expand...

Well Lets see how much I can help you out, Getting film on to your computer is easy when you send your film to be developed just tell them you want it transferred to mini DV, DVD, beta sp or the unrecommended D9 " keep in mind you will need decks for both Beta sp and D9" I recommend DVD and just rip it.

To record sync sound you will need a sound recording device either a NIGRA or DAT or both very common if you are in the industry you would use both to back up one another then to go with it you would need mics well there are a lot of mic's you would need to know what your shot would include MK80 is one just to name a few even lavaliere again depending on what you shot requires. Then you will need a slate so you can sync your sound to your film.

To sync playback you will have a log at the end of your shoot also the slate would show u scene and take number then you would name all your film footage and audio footage so you know which goes with which you would sync it on the clap I would recommend using AVID XPRESS "this is not DV EXPRESS or PRO" I have not used XPRESS PRO so I don’t know if that has an option to sync dailies or you can even sync the audio and video the hard way by looking at the audio wave and knowing where the sound peeks this could be done easily in Vegas 4

In the end its a lot of work if you are going to be working by yourself oh did i mention you would also need a mixer, well i hope i was some help to you
 
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Well lot of people think film is expansive but the fact is film is cheap and the processing is expansive I use continental to develop all my film they have specials for students you get 30% off if you give above 250 feet of film that’s not bad if you do the math if you want to really shoot film all I can say is go for it man you will never find a better teacher then yourself it will take time to be really good but if you never try you wont know you might even be more talented then you think.


Good Luck:

by the way its 10cents a foot for developing
this is the rate for CONTINENTAL
 
Reasons why?? I'm just not satisified with the video-look and mediocre quality... and rather than spring for an xl-1 or something simliar, there are tons of 8mm and 16mm cams on ebay for less than $200. I really want the "film" look for serious stuff, but I will definately keep miniDV for stupid jackass-type things. So what do I need, and where should I research, to get started in film?

Well do you know why they are so cheap? majority of those cameras are non sync and considered wild cameras, also they are spring load not automatic or crystal sync that mean no sync audio you would need a crystal sync camera to do what you are talking about make sure you do your research before you buy man. plus if you do go crystal sync you would need a nagra or dat to record audio plus mic etc.. etc.. lights you can rent look for some local rental houses and ask for discounts let them know what u are doing they sometimes help out.

well if you want to do it a cheap way go buy some photoflood blubs and run to home depot for simple open face work light lamps go to a photo hobby store buy some gels try even ebay there you go home made lighting kit now you are thinking you would need stands well buy some or if you already own tripods snap the lamps on it now u can control the light.

hope this helps..... :D
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FullSaileee said:
Well do you know why they are so cheap? majority of those cameras are non sync and considered wild cameras, also they are spring load not automatic or crystal sync that mean no sync audio
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-Are Bolex's considered "wild" ???
-At least temporarily for audio I was planning on recording on a minidisc, or worst case scenario on digital8. Either way, I was planning on having to sync in post afterwards.

I've been trying to get up to speed on everything but was hoping I could consult people that have already been there, done that --- with the hope of avoiding any mistakes people before me have made : )
 
Are Bolex's considered "wild" ???
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Unless you get really lucky, most 16mm cameras you can buy for under $2,500 or so are going to be too loud and/or too poorly synced to record live sound. I believe some people have adapted the Russian K3 camera to do it OK for a couple of thousand dollars, but I don't know how well they work. Certainly any Bolex you can buy for $200 is probably loud and non-sync.

That said, it's not impossible to shoot film that way: Robert Rodriguez shot 'El Mariachi' on a non-sync camera and recorded wild sound for the dialogue. However, he had the benefit of shooting in Spanish, so English-speaking audiences wouldn't really notice when the lips didn't quite sync up to the dialog. You'd definitely be making a lot of extra work for yourself.
 
Re: RE

Re: RE

FullSaileee said:
You told me its a bolex, but there are a lot of bolex's is it a h16 or the rex series? and is it spring load or does it use batteries?
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Most I have seen are H16's with the winding handle thing (spring load?) and usually 2-3 lenses. I've been watching ebay for a few weeks and there have been a lot going for under $300. Can you get a widescreen aspect ratio with a cam like this, or would I need an anamorphic lens or something? (I've pretty much given up on super 16, i seriously doubt I can own one for anywhere near this price).

So if I can get an H16 body/lens and a sync motor for under $350 is it worth it, or am I'm just kidding myself? (I'm trying to budget $350 for the cam, that leaves me $400 for other stuff before I reach the price of the cheapest 3ccd digicam)

Examples:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4691&item=3814258280&rd=1
and
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11719&item=3814743415&rd=1
and
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4691&item=3814413944&rd=1
 
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Well scud in this case these cameras you just showed me are all no reflex camera you need a reflex camera " non reflex= you wont see what the lens is seeing" this will make it really difficult on framing you should look for reflex cameras if you have the money go with the arri s "the same camera robert rodriguez used for el mariachi this was a non sync camera it had a tobin motor but he used it to his advantage he ramped it up on the fighting sequences and slowed it down on the dream sequences but this was a reflex camera also try to look for a arri bl see what works for you man listen any way you go as a cinematographer you want to create beautiful pictures and tell a story in every frame now its your choice to see which medium you feel most comfortable well there is also another camera called BEAULIEU R16

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=628&item=3814709192&rd=1

I have used this camera its really good great for students or beginners
it says its a sync camera but it dont tell you will will need to buy an old nagra what can be plugged in to the camera to make it sync man i can keep writng with verious names of cameras and keep up page after page so here is my opnion have you considered renting a film camera? try looking up rental houses this will be your best bet but i really think if you are serious about filmmaking atleast try film once see how you like it.

Good luck :D
 
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FullSaileee said:
Well scud in this case these cameras you just showed me are all no reflex camera you need a reflex camera " non reflex= you wont see what the lens is seeing"
Click to expand...

--yeah i forgot to check for that, but the last one i posted says it's a reflex viewfinder... is this just the seller's mistake??
--If it is really a reflex camera, and I pick up the sync motor you posted about earlier, I would have plenty of dough left over to get a nice mic and perhaps a few other things, and I would have a nice newbie set up right?? I keep hearing a bunch about nagra recorders but those are not cheap at all; I was planning on using adapaters to get xlr to 1/8" and just recording on minidisc (bad idea??). My ultimate goal is get it all to a pc for editing, and that would be easier with minidisc anyway.
--also, I won't be renting... I'm not doing a specific project yet, I really just want to get my feet wet and mess around on my own. If I can get all that stuff ^^^ for a few hundred bucks, thats way cheaper than film school.
Seeing the prices these things are going for on ebay has really gotten my hopes up--i really want to do this--if anyone knows how I can make it happen, please post.
 
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