Varying Views of Hollywood

[golden double sprigs]

Hollywood is a name that figures prominently into the film opinions and theories of every movie buff. The term is heard and used everywhere. So the question is, "are you Anti-Hollywood?" And if so: "what does Hollywood represent to you?" I am going to shout out my beliefs.

I am Anti-Hollywood. For me, Hollywood is the style most movies use in the States as well as the foreign industries that have succumbed to the method which I call "guideline filmmaking". Most people think of the money aspect of the American film industry as Hollywood: millions of dollars, glamorous stars, epic productions and commercials. Unfortunatly I cannot put my finger on the specifics of the Hollywood style I am so opposed to, but I do get a feeling [as does everyone] when watching a movie and I decide for myself whether or not it appears Hollywoodish. For example, I recently saw The Passion of The Christ and thought it was very Hollywood. I was hoping for something different, something uniquely spiritual, but the film was pieced together the way anyother movie would be. My reasoning does not matter. However, if you would like to have a chat about it send me a PM and we can discuss the film.

Back to the topic. I am not saying Hollywood makes movies the "wrong way" and that there is "one correct way" to make a film. I am a supporter of diversity at all costs. Hollywood needs to stay. What needs to go is the monopoly. I am aware of many organizations and festivals and programs helping independent filmmakers with the movie making process which can be very stressful and dissapointing. I don't have any definite answers either. My goal is to ignite a film movement unlike anyother with the mission of establishing a universal respect not only for personal filmmaking but also for the language of cinema. Right now, the movies with the most success are shallow Hollywood productions distributed to make money. Hollywood does not make art; they make money. This is not a new concept, but one that very few people take seriously; I am one who does. Recently I was motivated strongly enough to compile all my ideas into an Anti-Hollywood manifesto that you might be interested in reading; PM me if you want to see it. I just think that cinema needs to be treated personally for image artists to create personal films and for the diversity of mankind to be cherished on all levels through the medium of film.

This is a great website to discuss film in a mature and individual way. What is your take on Hollywood?

 

[jodymichelle]

Welcome to the forums! I've submitted my vote. Happy posting! Will PM you in a sec.

 

[Digigenic]

The Sheep Must Decide…

The Sheep Must Decide…

Welcome GDS,
It’s no surprise to see a fellow Texan announcing support for an indie insurgency against the monopolization of the film industry …you're in good company

However, without being too critical of your concepts, I feel compelled to direct an opposing observation towards the conflicting ideologies of the film movement you’ve envisioned.

Ok, If one were inclined to ignite such a movement of universal proportions, wouldn’t they also be inclined to maintain it?
And if so, when the current monopoly has ended and/or is divided, and your goal to establish a “universal” movement for filmmaking is successfully implemented, wouldn’t it eventually lead to another monopoly?

I’m an artist/filmmaker, and I believe that creating an open environment for any art form or expression is an admirable cause, but principles of uniformity can't be applied to an artistic revolution. How can you expect artists, who in nature are generally opposed to the establishment to rise up and create another establishment?

If one were destined to start a revolution, I believe that the decision to incite uprising within the film industry depends more on the sheep, the general audience, than the Shepard, the filmmaker. It’s a numbers game, it’s critical to have the general audience on your side, and so far, the indie community doesn’t have that kind of momentum to start a revolution.

I don't know if the general audience will ever feel compelled to make change? Most of the people who make up the general audience don't bother to differentiate between an artist at work, and an opportunist behind a camera. And they tend to only show interest when their favorite actor or actress is staring in it, most often captivated by the way the images rush, shoot, dance, and hump its' way into their hearts. It's an unfortunate set of circumstances, but that's the way it goes.

As much as I’d like to agree with the notion that a revolution within the film industry will improve circumstances for artists, I also understand that the notion isn’t feasible unless there is overwhelming support from the general audience to assist in this revolution. But when you have that kind of support, you basically have a monopoly, so it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.

 

[golden double sprigs]

Good points, but what next?

Good points, but what next?

Well, Digigenic you say something very true. I agree with it all. I know what I say is a dream. The best outcome would be to broaden the independent opportunities. A big help would be to maintain more art theatres to make films more available. Though this alone would not provide the support needed for a movement because . . .

. . . "the sheep must decide" . . . I agree with you on that all the way. It never fully occured to me that the only effective way is to target the audience; the fodder for the film industry. And like you say, that change seems unlikely.

Maybe the characteristics of independent filmmaking that make it so special is that it is independent; free from an industry and free from the major crowds. If this is true, I sure wish a film career was a whole lot easier.

And the independent film scene does not offer the security Hollywood does. I guess the best thing is to just make personal films the way you want them to be and do as much as you can to support festivals and societies. What else can you do?

 

[Digigenic]

Keep the dream alive, herd those damn sheep!

Keep the dream alive, herd those damn sheep!

GDS,

Regardless of what I or anyone else say, you must keep your dream alive. I wish that when I was your age I had been as committed to the craft as you are. I was always pretty stubborn. I'm still stubborn actually. But, in spite of my stubbornness, I understand that it’s still important to dream, no matter how far-fetched it may seem. As my good friend always says, “The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams”.

So do you intend to further your studies in film? Being in Austin, you have the opportunity to crash UT and their Burnt Orange Film Program, the first and only program of its kind. I’m considering a transfer to UT, but I must first pull up my GPA, haha. I also don’t want to pigeon hole myself into one field, film is a risky business, and I certainly wouldn’t feel safe with it being the only crown of knowledge on my head.

Anyhow, on the subject of making personal films, it reminds me of an online conversation I had with Dale Launer on Ebay during a fraudulent auction for a Panasonic AG-DVX100. We started talking about the camera and the illegitimacy of the auction. It was pretty funny, I didn’t even know who he was at first. I thought he was a recent college grad or something, trying to get a good deal on a camera for an indie. But, after searching for his name on IMDB I realized I’d been talking to an established Hollywood writer and producer. Soon, we were into the discussion of student and indie filmmaking, and the number 1 thing he emphasized was that while you’re young, you should try to do all of the personal films you can possibly make while you can. Because once you get clustered into the business, you may never get the chance to make that movie you’d always dreamed of doing while you were young, and it will haunt you throughout your years. At first, I was just stubborn, because I wanted to know the secret to making big movies, but now I’m beginning to see the significance of his advice. Making personal films helps you realize who you are as an artist, and as a person, so that when/if you enter filmmaking as a profession, you do it with an unmistakable sense of certainty.

 

[golden double sprigs]

why the disguise?

why the disguise?

Every film one makes should be personal. As a matter of fact, everything anyone ever makes should be personal. Then why do people shy away from their own voice? Maybe its because they have lost their own. Maybe they have been told for so long there is a right way to make art and they are too afraid to do the wrong thing. If art isn't personal, then someone please tell me what its purpose is?

 

[Digigenic]

Don’t take it personal; it’s just business…

Don’t take it personal; it’s just business…

Don’t take it personal; it’s just business…

If not for personal reasons, then the only other reason would be to serve business.
As you know, filmmaking is a very big business.
I like to believe that filmmakers, and all artists have a natural inclination to make something personal, from the heart. However, business tends to be the deciding factor.

I’d like to elaborate more on the subject, but I’m not really a “business” person, so my mind easily wonders away from that.

 

[EDM]

as i think i said in another post, most hollywood films that are being made lately do not interest me much at all. a good amount of them are remakes also, which i usually dont care for. you dont need much talent to make a film that willl go number one in the box office. films like, texas chainsaw massacre (remake) and freddy vs. jason got terrible revews when released, yet did great in the theaters. alot of the comedies are really rediculous now too. it looks to me like the crazier things that happen in the film, will make more money. and i think the people making the film know this. american action films have gotten incredibly boring for me. almost every one is made in the same style. not that i was ever a big fan of the genre, but give me an asian actiion film any day. sometimes you can just look at a film and know whether it was made for the right reasons or not. and i have no respect for the people who are in the buisness only for fame and money and have no respect or love for the art.

 

[Digigenic]

Fear and Loathing Hollywood

Fear and Loathing Hollywood

Ed,

I understand your position against Hollywood, as do many other indie filmmakers and indie enthusiasts.

But, you are mistaken in your assertion that very little talent is needed to achieve the number one box office spot in the U.S.
I have to say that there is quite a bit of talent and skill involved in managing such an accomplishment. Do you think that they’ve made it to where they are because they’re good beggars?

By taking this position, you’ve put yourself in a very tight corner.

If you're really convinced that nearly every movie you've seen is made in the same style, why do you still watch them?
But, if you respond by saying that you don’t or can’t watch them, then how can you comment on them at all?

My suggestion is, if it doesn’t agree with you on a measure of technicality or artistic originality, then try to look at it from another angle. If that doesn’t work, then you’re going to have to get out and go find the movie of your preference, because the films that are provided through the feeding tube nolonger suit your tastes.

 

[EDM]

ok. I admit i did make too harsh a statement. what i should i should have said (and meant) was, what hollywood is looking for in a film nowadays is only what people want to see, meaning sex, violence and whatever, and they want it all done in the same way. this seems to be what and why these films are doing so great. i do not see much creativity in the films i see. and i dont think they bother to actually try to come up with different ideas because the mainstream public would not enjoy something "that" different. theres so many strings attached with making a big budget film now the companies are always interfering somewhat with the production, whether its the script or the actors. i just feel that most of these films are being made for the wrong reasons and its just something i notice right away.

 

[golden double sprigs]

am I insane just because every movie I see is the same?

am I insane just because every movie I see is the same?

I agree with you Ed in many ways. Basically, the movies you don't have to work to see are the same. The film world that offers a creativity and spark of life are hidden in film festivals, art theatres and specialty independent video stores. And I don't see how that is debateable.

Just look at the Oscars; a collection of some of the best and unfortunatly some of the over-rated movies thought to be the best that made it into theatres and the moviegoeing audience. The collection is homogeneous. The same through out. Like cement. Or filtered water. In other words boring. Predictable.

Now, this is my opinion and it'll never leave me. If you don't agree, I can understand. I think that too many movies are based on books. Too many movies tell a story using traditional methods. Too many movies make logical sense. What ever happened to figurative thinking? What happened to the metaphor? What happened to beauty in images? Someone please prove me wrong.

 

[Digigenic]

Go figure…

Go figure…

GDS,

The assertion that most movies are “literal”, and have no figurative significance is objectionable based on the principle that all movies utilize various forms of expression to effectively communicate with different audiences. In the same regard, it’s also disputable that most movies are logical; the movies I see tend to infuse elements of fantasy into their stories, that’s what makes them so fascinating and entertaining, “suspension of disbelief”.

Different people find different things in different movies all of the time, sometimes believable other times unbelievable, it just depends on the viewer. People shouldn’t be so obsessive with the figurative form of expression though; it’s like being obsessed with a game of charades, how long can you play charades before frustration hits and you start screaming, “STOP WITH ALL OF THE F&CK!ING GESTURES AND JUST SAY WHAT YOU F&CK!NG MEAN!”

It is undisputable that many movies are adapted from books, and as a result they tend to be constructed in a similar manner, but this is because audiences tend to look and listen only when you tell them something that’s familiar to them. If you make them feel at ease, they’ll follow you wherever you take them. Like I said before, herd those damn sheep.

 

[Topherma]

True to you

True to you

Now you go, you sit down, and what do you see? Another almost factory made movie, wrapped in plastic. Hollywood to me is a great evil, because they love to dumb down and butcher movies so that audiences of vast majority will go and pay to see it. I look and see in the news how movies are number one in the box office. Does that mean it's a great film, that we should praise? absolutley not! What happened to the stories, what happened to the more personal film, why is it that now a days, all movies need is action, and cgi up the wazoo. I say scrap those things, do I hate hoolywood? very much so, the only thing to do, is trust in your talent and to make a film that is genuine, and real, and something that relates to you, and if large audiences don't get it or don't like it, then good. Film is one of the most beutiful art forms we have in this world, it can be so rich and so colorful, and so imaginitive, Hollywood, it seems, has forgotten about this. But we shouldn't forget, or sell out to that idea of generating audiences, or giving in to other's influences, just because it's not their taste. Make what's true to you.

 

[Digigenic]

Topherma,

Hollywood doesn’t pay any attention you, so why do you pay any attention Hollywood?

What makes your opposition to Hollywood so important?
Have you ever acted upon this inclination to rage against Hollywood by making films of your own? If so, have you been able to make any movies that can compete with any one of the recent number one box office movies?

This assumption that good movies should always sit at the top of the box office is based on the shallow belief that good movies always receive the recognition they deserve.

Good movies don’t always receive the respect that they deserve, and they certainly don’t always sit atop the magical box office mountain, as many would like to believe. Hell, many of the great movies aren’t even made in the U.S.A.

Hollywood has always been about entertainment, never has it tried to be anything else.
Why is that such a shock?
You assume that Hollywood should have changed with you, to meet your acquired tastes, but it hasn’t, and it won’t.
What are you going to do?
Talk about it, or make change?

If Hollywood movies irritate you so much, then pay no money to see them, and more importantly, pay no attention to them. Go make your own movies, and leave Hollywood to making their own movies, let the sheep decide who the victor is…

 

[Topherma]

Your Exactly Right

Your Exactly Right

Digigenic,
You make exactly my point, I don't head towards Hollywood. All I'm trying to say here, is that we, you and everyone who is so passionate about films, should make what we want. I said that Hollywood was evil, but on second thought, there are a lot of good things that have come out of Hollywood, but just in life, there's always the good, and the bad. Making movies, is not about "competition with those in the box office" it's about making something that's unique, and from you. The "shallow" belief that good movies should get what they deserve, is not what I was getting at, I was more trying to say, "look, this is a shame that it's like this, and things won't change in hollywood, they're gonna make these types of movies, some may actually be good, some not. All I want to do is make good movies", that might be "shallow" to you, but I think just having one person, just one person, like your movie, and "get" it, then it's a success to me. My point was exactly what you said ". Go make your own movies, and leave Hollywood to making their own movies, " we should all do what strikes us, everyday, I write something, I don't just talk about this, I keep moving my limits forward, when I first started out with my good friend, all we had was a camera, that could only record for 10 seconds, with no sound, and wouldn't record half the time because of a bad battery, even though we had so much struggle, we still made a decent little movie, as kids. Right now we both have DV cameras and final cut pro and better equipment than back then, and are working on projects together... Me and My friend are making changes, with every story, and every movie.

 

[Kim Welch]

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